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loll_l
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Orangey/browny froth

Postby loll_l » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:57 pm

Over the last couple of months an orangey/browny froth has appeared on the surface of the water in my growing on vat (see pic below).... whatever is in the water is also making the visibility poor - I can only see the koi when they come to the top to feed.

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The vat holds 1500 gallons, is heated to 21 degrees and is very well filtered (Nexus 310) with a good pond turnover rate....

Potential problems I can think of are:

1 - There is no UV installed - this is because very little light gets to the vat (it's indoors). I removed the UV from my setup a long time ago (around 18 months) and this orange froth problem has only occurred in the last couple of months - so I cannot see this being the problem.

2 - There is no air being pumped directly into the vat - this is because I have 130l being pumped into the bio side of the nexus - which I have been told is enough for the whole setup. Again, I have been running it this way (no air directly into the vat) for around 18 months so I cannot see this being the problem either.

Does anyone know what's caused this froth and how I can get rid of it? Could it be linked to either of the 2 points above?

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Re: Orangey/browny froth

Postby Airlite » Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:50 pm

Just a thought but how much are you feeding and have you changed the food recently? Could it be excess protein? I take it your normal water parameters are healthy and the fish aren't showing any abnormal behaviour?

If you want rid of the froth, would it be worth considering a skimmer like the Oase Aquaskim 40 or something similar? That would certainly help reduce the amount of surface stuff and that in turn might help with the overall clarity.

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Manky Sanke
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Re: Orangey/browny froth

Postby Manky Sanke » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:52 am

The foam on ponds is usually dissolved organic carbon (DOC) and it primarily comes from undigested food or partly digested food (mainly protein) in fish excrement. Carp are genetically predisposed to eat whatever they find whenever they find it. In the wild, carp don't normally find as much protein at any one time as we feed them when we feed large only small amounts of food are eaten at a time then there will be sufficient catabolic enzymes for it to be fully digested.

If we feed too much high protein at any one time, there won’t be enough of these enzymes to break it all down in the limited amount of time that the food is in the gut. The result is that the food won't be fully digested and will emerge at the other end as DOC.

You can remove DOC by protein skimmers and/or water changes but koi food is expensive so if a percentage is excreted undigested, (and helps to mess up your water), it is just wasting money. My suggestion is that the feeding regime is the first thing that can be addressed by feeding less food or the same total daily amount but spaced in smaller portions spaced throughout the day. This should dramatically reduce the DOC and allow the normal DOC reducing bugs to be able to cope with DOC from pheromones and other metabolic wastes that aren't so easy to eliminate


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Manky Sanke
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Re: Orangey/browny froth

Postby Manky Sanke » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:26 am




Sorry, as I tried to tidy that up to make it read better, part of it deleted and the board won't allow me to edit it again. This is what I meant to say:



The foam on ponds is usually dissolved organic carbon (DOC) and it primarily comes from undigested food or partly digested food (mainly protein) in fish excrement. Carp are genetically predisposed to eat whatever they find whenever they find it. In the wild, carp don't normally find as much protein at any one time as we feed them when we feed large amounts of high protein food a few times a day, especially when we want to encourage growth. . Wheat germ can also be a problem since it also contains protein that is often a low digestibility form and is therefore best fed in small amounts at any one time to prevent there being too much for the gut to deal with as it passes through.

Food passes through the gut at a steady rate and there are only a limited amount of enzymes available for catabolism (breaking down the food as the first part of the digestive process). If only small amounts of food are eaten at a time then there will be sufficient catabolic enzymes for it to be fully digested. If we feed too much high protein at any one time, there won’t be enough of these enzymes to break it all down in the limited amount of time that the food is in the gut. The result is that the food won't be fully digested and will emerge at the other end as DOC.

You can remove DOC by protein skimmers and/or water changes but koi food is expensive so if a percentage is excreted undigested, (and helps to mess up your water), it is just wasting money.

My suggestion is that the feeding regime is the first thing that can be addressed either by feeding less food or the same total daily amount but spaced in smaller portions spaced throughout the day. This should dramatically reduce the DOC and allow the normal DOC reducing bugs to be able to cope with DOC from pheromones and other metabolic wastes that aren't so easy to eliminate.


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