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ka004h9564
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Heating pond??

Postby ka004h9564 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:41 am

Hi all, im thinking about heating my pond this year, my pond is 5000 gallon, im looking at getting a air heat source pump, just wondered what size pumps others are using on my size pond and running costs(approx. if possible)
many thanks
Ken..

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efficiencyman
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Re: Heating pond??

Postby efficiencyman » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:04 pm

Depends on a few factors, like is your pond covered ? Is it in ground & insulated, exposed pipework ? How cold your area is, weather, etc. What size you need is partly based on heat Losses but your 5,000 Gallon should be OK with 7 or 8 KWh output. The costs will depend largely on how HIGH you set the thermostat, as the higher you have it, the losses will increase substantially. An ASHP will always be less to run than an inline Electric Heater either way insulation is the prime way to save running costs.

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby ka004h9564 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:18 pm

Hi ,3ft of my pond is in the ground, but i"m not insulated (concrete block laid on side) only insulated out of the ground a little bit, I was thinking of heating through the winter months to around 12 deg to keep the fish happy. pond temp at the mo is 3.5 degs ,was looking to get a 10kw dream ashp.
Ken..

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby ackoi » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:21 pm

A 7kw will be struggling in minus temperatures on 5000 galls,and you will find it will be on 24 hours in those conditions.

For the little amount of additional cash, get a 10kw ie a Dura10, it will be much more efficient

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby efficiencyman » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:30 pm

With heat losses that high on 5000 gallons your costs will be much higher, yes you may need a 10 KW at 12 degs temp when frosty, especially as ASHP efficiency is not so effective below 4 degs. You also need to prevent any "iceing over" when humidity is high. What`s your location ? Wind chill will also have a big effect. Be certain to cover over when temps drop at night, that`s when you will really notice your heat losses. I use a separate Digital controller & timer for my heat pump system to minimise running costs.

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby Petes Pond » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:30 pm

Hiya, I wouldn't worry to much about not having your pond insulated. I've had my last two ponds heated, which were both 4 foot under ground and 2 foot above ground, one at c10,000 gallons 6mx4mx2m brick built with windows, and my latest which is the same but at c5,000 gallons 3mx4mx2m with a stainless steel sides with massive windows all round....... and these ponds were not insulated. However it is best if you cover the pond, I used 25mm polycarbonate sheets, which I slip on and off depending on the weather. I heat the pond to around 12c with a Dura heat pump, which runs when the temp drops below 12c. I have found by heating the pond, the fish are far more active, they feed better, I have no issues with water quality, and the Koi seem happier :roll: . but if you don't cover you will find it very expensive to run.
Also ensure you have a large enough power cable feeding the pond as the power the ASHP pulls, especially when it kicks in can trip your fuses :cry: you may also need a D breaker in the board :?:
Hope this helps!

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby ka004h9564 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:42 am

Hi again, thanks for the replies, I think I will get the dream 12.5kw one, i will cover with polycarb to keep the chill off in the winter months and my bro in law is a sparky so he will help me with getting a separate supply to my heater, iv got a spare way on my fuseboard. so that helps.
Many thanks
Ken..

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby ka004h9564 » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:14 pm

@ efficiencyman, hi just been reading another forum (plumbers) and ne of the threads say that these pumps are not efficient at below 3 degs, how true is this as the temps in my garden are low through the winter when I want to heat.
here is a graph of the last 2 months temps.
Ken..
temp graph.png
temp graph.png (10.59 KiB) Viewed 649 times

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby efficiencyman » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:35 am

Hi Ken , Sorry I have only just seen your questions. I am also on the plumbers forum, there are many on there who don`t want to see there the benefits of Heat Pumps. Remember they mostly earn their living by GAS installs, & throw the baby out with the bath water. There is truth that at at low temps & high Humidity situations when benefits are \not good, but that does not mean that Heating our ponds with a Heat Pump is bad, IN FACT IT CAN SAVE WADS OF MONEY. What area do you live ? How you intend to use it ? What temperatures to attain ? Covers, Wind Chill & Loses even from pipework insulation. Running costs will be effected so much by the above & other losses including lack of Insulation, What you don`t loose, You don`t have to replace !
At certain times (high Humidity) Ice can build up on the evaporator, a built in cycle will normally operate to defrost this Ice but that costs money. I do Not recommend operating during these situations, I can explain but cut this reply short for now. Please answer the above ???? BUT over all HEAT PUMPS will do a great heating job ! HP`s Can pay for themselves very quickly if used to their best advantages. I will try to help with operational settings & how I have used my heat pump the last 6 years to keep my Koi at above 12 Degs. throughout winter.

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby Andy71070 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:06 pm

efficiencyman wrote:Hi Ken , Sorry I have only just seen your questions. I am also on the plumbers forum, there are many on there who don`t want to see there the benefits of Heat Pumps. Remember they mostly earn their living by GAS installs, & throw the baby out with the bath water. There is truth that at at low temps & high Humidity situations when benefits are \not good, but that does not mean that Heating our ponds with a Heat Pump is bad, IN FACT IT CAN SAVE WADS OF MONEY. What area do you live ? How you intend to use it ? What temperatures to attain ? Covers, Wind Chill & Loses even from pipework insulation. Running costs will be effected so much by the above & other losses including lack of Insulation, What you don`t loose, You don`t have to replace !
At certain times (high Humidity) Ice can build up on the evaporator, a built in cycle will normally operate to defrost this Ice but that costs money. I do Not recommend operating during these situations, I can explain but cut this reply short for now. Please answer the above ???? BUT over all HEAT PUMPS will do a great heating job ! HP`s Can pay for themselves very quickly if used to their best advantages. I will try to help with operational settings & how I have used my heat pump the last 6 years to keep my Koi at above 12 Degs. throughout winter.




Hi
Can these heat pumps be run indoors ?
I.E. Inside a large shed

Thanks
Andy

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efficiencyman
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Re: Heating pond??

Postby efficiencyman » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:45 pm

I think you are misunderstanding how Heat pumps work if you don`t mind me being blunt, sorry I will try to explain. If you were to run a heat pump in a shed it would get very cold, very quickly, there`s NO POINT & it would go wrong very quickly. If that`s the only space you have or you wish to muffle the running sound, You need to cut big vent holes IN & OUT for lots of air flow to the Evaporator with NO OBSTRUCTIONS & build ducts in & out to it, if want the shed to stay warmer. The large volume of Air flow is needed to enable heat pump compressor to transfer heat into your Pond water via its Heat Exchanger. If you need to know more ask me. The cost of running the HP versus Electric inline heaters, = about 1/4 of the cost of your electric heater, for a similar consumed energy tariff cost. i.e. about 2.5 to 4 times more efficient if run correctly i.e. at good temps the better.

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby ka004h9564 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:35 pm

Hi again, i live in blackheath,(near Birmingham) ,my back garden is north facing, my pond is not very well insulated but I do block it in in the winter months, the temperature I want is around 8-10 through the winter, the location would be the side of the filter.
so would it still be ok for the winter??
cheers
Ken..

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby efficiencyman » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:20 pm

Hi Ken, As your not well insulated the heat input losses will cost a lot more to maintain a higher temp than Ambient. However the temps you wish to attain are not too high but the difference at night will be where you will loose more, especially with wind chill. Water surface will be greatest but covering will be very advantageous, along with insulating Filters & pipework. Heat pumps can work very well above 5 or 6 degs. C but often nighttime temps drop below this so don`t expect efficient results during high Humidity, as the evaporator will ICE over causing a De-Ice cycle, usually a heating element or reverse cycle to melt ice, that increases costs. I have my HP inhibited during that situation so that it runs more efficient as my pond is well insulated & stays warmer for days. With that in mind it can still work well during our winters.

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby ka004h9564 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:41 pm

Thanks for the reply, my plan is to only heat through the day from around 9 till 6 when the air temp is a little warmer, but will see once I get one.
cheers
Ken..

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Re: Heating pond??

Postby efficiencyman » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:08 pm

Hi Ken that should be good for efficient temperature Gain with minimal cost. Avoid temperature swings when it`s frosty, during the cold night times with covers on. More than a 2 Deg swing can cause other health problems, for our Koi to thrive they like stable temps. All the Best. P.S. I don`t visit here on a regular basis now.


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